Chuck Nagle says his father will want to write a check to donate to his church. But he won’t be allowed to write that check. “He has zero authority now to do anything. He can’t even subscribe to the newspaper.”
That’s because a non-profit corporate guardian has been appointed to represent William Nagle, whom Chuck said has early stages of Alzheimer’s. A guardian was appointed because of his medical condition.
The guardian system in Wisconsin is one where little information reaches the public, and sometimes even family members. "In Wisconsin, guardianship cases are considered to be closed. Even family cannot get information." It’s a system that he contends is broken.
Otis Woods is administrator for the Division of Quality Assurance of the Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services, the agency that oversees the regulation of guardians. The state uses 13 criteria for those guardians, Woods said. If they violate any one of those 13, he said they can be removed as a guardian. But complaints are relatively rare. Woods: “We don’t receive very many. Maybe five a year.”
A second category, of for-profit guardians, are unregulated by the state. Woods said the state is in the early stages of reviewing that and possibly rewriting rules to include regulation.
Chuck Nagle says relatives can be shut out of receiving updated financial information on a regular basis. That decision is up to a corporate guardian and can be upheld by a judge. “The only information the guardians have to report is to the court, once a year.”
Rep. Scott Suder who represents the state’s 69th Assembly District: “Once a year, for any type of reporting, is clearly not enough.” He said perhaps the Legislative Audit Bureau could audit the state’s guardian program to see if changes need to be made.
State Rep. Kirsten Dexter who represents the 68th District where William Nagle lives, is also considering forcing guardians to report financial information more frequently.
About the case:
After William Nagle’s wife died in May 2007, family members couldn’t agree what should happen next. Chuck Nagle asked in June 2008 for a limited, temporary guardian be appointed for his father, which was done in October. The next month a permanent guardian from Chippewa Family Services, Inc. in Chippewa Falls was appointed.
Chuck Nagle now is restricted in his posing of questions of the guardian, according a March 6 letter from Chippewa Falls attorney Robert W. McKinley, who represents Chippewa Family Services and the guardian. "You are not to contact my client again absent a bona fide emergency concerning your father. If my client hears from you for any other reason, all contacts will be terminated,” the letter states.
Nagle said he is appealing decisions in his father’s case to the Wisconsin Third District Court of Appeals in Wausau.
And he’s warning others of the potential pitfalls of Wisconsin’s guardian system.
Full Article and Source:
Guardian system leaves questions
Robert McKinley is a certified guardian with The Center For Guardianship Certification, allied foundation of the National Guardianship Association (NGA)
That’s because a non-profit corporate guardian has been appointed to represent William Nagle, whom Chuck said has early stages of Alzheimer’s. A guardian was appointed because of his medical condition.
The guardian system in Wisconsin is one where little information reaches the public, and sometimes even family members. "In Wisconsin, guardianship cases are considered to be closed. Even family cannot get information." It’s a system that he contends is broken.
Otis Woods is administrator for the Division of Quality Assurance of the Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services, the agency that oversees the regulation of guardians. The state uses 13 criteria for those guardians, Woods said. If they violate any one of those 13, he said they can be removed as a guardian. But complaints are relatively rare. Woods: “We don’t receive very many. Maybe five a year.”
A second category, of for-profit guardians, are unregulated by the state. Woods said the state is in the early stages of reviewing that and possibly rewriting rules to include regulation.
Chuck Nagle says relatives can be shut out of receiving updated financial information on a regular basis. That decision is up to a corporate guardian and can be upheld by a judge. “The only information the guardians have to report is to the court, once a year.”
Rep. Scott Suder who represents the state’s 69th Assembly District: “Once a year, for any type of reporting, is clearly not enough.” He said perhaps the Legislative Audit Bureau could audit the state’s guardian program to see if changes need to be made.
State Rep. Kirsten Dexter who represents the 68th District where William Nagle lives, is also considering forcing guardians to report financial information more frequently.
About the case:
After William Nagle’s wife died in May 2007, family members couldn’t agree what should happen next. Chuck Nagle asked in June 2008 for a limited, temporary guardian be appointed for his father, which was done in October. The next month a permanent guardian from Chippewa Family Services, Inc. in Chippewa Falls was appointed.
Chuck Nagle now is restricted in his posing of questions of the guardian, according a March 6 letter from Chippewa Falls attorney Robert W. McKinley, who represents Chippewa Family Services and the guardian. "You are not to contact my client again absent a bona fide emergency concerning your father. If my client hears from you for any other reason, all contacts will be terminated,” the letter states.
Nagle said he is appealing decisions in his father’s case to the Wisconsin Third District Court of Appeals in Wausau.
And he’s warning others of the potential pitfalls of Wisconsin’s guardian system.
Full Article and Source:
Guardian system leaves questions
Robert McKinley is a certified guardian with The Center For Guardianship Certification, allied foundation of the National Guardianship Association (NGA)
In a particular Wisconsin guardianship case, the family was notified of the hearing for temporary guardianship several days AFTER the hearing was a done deal.
ReplyDelete8 years after the death of the ward, the sealed "closed" guardianship case file is missing mandatory documents, including inventory and accounting.
"Unknown" was accepted by probate court. "Unknown" stands til this day.
"Unknown" is the answer for all the questions listed related to financial disclosures even though all of the wards assets were embezzled by the temporary guardian in excess of $80,000.00.
Yes, the system is broken. In this case 100% failure.
The guardian system is sick. It needs strong medicine - and it needs the lighth of day. This is an area of public interest where family, friends, and the public must not be shut out.
ReplyDeleteFamily should be first. If they can't agree, they should mediate - not agitate - or everyone loses.
How horrible must it be not to be able to see your father/mother whenever you want, to have to go through strangers, to beg and plead for permission?
The courts have failed in overseeing guardianship. The job should be taken away from them after there has been an adjudication. Monitoring must be done by an outside agency. There must be better accounting.
Go NASGA!
Closed files hide corruption.
ReplyDeleteRobert W. McKinley:
ReplyDelete"You are not to contact my client again absent a bona fide emergency concerning your father. If my client hears from you for any other reason, all contacts will be terminated,” the letter states.
This is clearly a threateniing letter which clearly states: OBEY us or you will suffer the consequences.
Woods said: “We don’t receive very many (complaints). Maybe five a year.”
Anyone wonder why people who have valid grievences are terrified to file a complaint and sign their name?
If in doubt, please read the quote by attorney Robert W. McKinley.
Pitfalls as large as sinkholes all by design.
ReplyDeleteMy advice: SPEND, SPEND, SPEND it now cause if you don't SPEND, SPEND, SPEND your own money - others will find a way to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, it on your behalf most often with court approval!
My guess is that there are far more than five complaints a year, Mr. Woods.
ReplyDeleteI think there are at least five complaints from your state on this blog.
Get real.
Plan A: Deny, deny, deny
ReplyDeleteThe guardianship system in WI isn't exactly broken -- it's "fixed".
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of work to be done to reform the system and I hope all readers of this blog will join and support NASGA in its efforts.
Wisernow<
ReplyDeleteYou should read the rest of McKinley's qoute from the original article. The one here was edited.
“You have brought this on yourself. My client has made every effort to keep you and your siblings in the loop concerning your father. These good efforts have been rewarded with some of the most childish behaviors I have ever encountered,” McKinley wrote.
And a key quote from Chuck“The guardian has absolute 100 percent authority over my life.”
While it is sad that Chuck asked the court for a guardianship and that one was granted, anyone who knows this man realizes just how appropriate and fitting McKinley's coments were. The other siblings did not receive such orders and are free to comunicate. While the attorney"s letter may seem threatening to unimformed readers, those closer to the story know that Chuck is the threatining abusive sibling who needs medical help.
This case is more a flaw in the power of the judicial system to grant the guardian with poa's in place, not with the guardian itself.
Anon, I did read the article in full at the link provided prior to my comment.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your efforts providing me and the readers with your views.
I do not know how you know what you know, personally, or hearsay, third party statements, "closed"
"sealed" case file etc.
Most people do not fully understand the 100% loss of rights of the ward and how they, the ward's family (and friends), will be impacted in their own lives as they have known it.
Most people have a very difficult time accepting the reality and consequences of guardianship until they are in it and then, it's too late; they are blindsided, shocked and very frustrated, angered with a system leaving them ineffective with no standing, no where to go to address their fears, concerns, or to object, complain or get relief or a sympathetic ear.
Guardianships include loved ones, family members in the majority of cases and with that comes family history, family bonds and loads of emotions.
I stand by my belief attorney McKinley's threats: "If my client hears from you for any other reason, all contacts will be terminated" is the ultimate show of power, a very serious threat of punishment, bullying a family member into submission, into silence and obedience is wrong, it is out of line.
In my opinion, threatening a family member in a formal letter with loss of "all" contacts is used as a way to manipulate and control the emotional situation of an outspoken family member; the threat is not fair or the appropriate consequence for one's actions considering the recipient of the threatening letter has not been charged with any criminal activites.
The issue of the courts in all 50 states routinely dismissing, disregarding previously executed legal documents in good faith, including the most urgent issue of POA's is alarming and must be addressed as a priority.
Most people are misinformed, they wrongly believe they are protected from the strangers in the guardianship system if they have a valid POA.
Most people do not know that a guardian, a total stranger to the ward, has absolute power and control over his/her life and death decisions and all that the ward owns.
The guardian has the power to dispose of all property and possessions, to revoke, shred all previously executed legal documents including POA's, Wills, Trusts, Living Wills, etc.
How can this be? And, why is this allowed to continue?
Wisernow,
ReplyDeleteI assure you that I agree 100% with the last part of your comments. In this case there is no failure of the guardian however, but as you pointed out the judicial system that invalidated POA's based on a selfish, confrontational sibling who requested the court for a guardian. There is a follow up article in the same paper that may be of interest to you.
I am part of the Nagle’s Family, and I can assure you that there in no one in the Family other than Chuck, that feels McKinley's comments were unwarranted. A blessing actually. The man is abusive and controlling. The ultimate attempt at a “show of power” as you said came from Chuck. He finally got shut down. This is a man who has caused much damage in his Fathers life, as well as many other Family members including myself. I appreciate the concern and commend the efforts of this site, as there clearly is a problem that you identified in the last part of your post. However, I can not sit quietly and allow you to throw this attorney under the bus when you don’t know the whole story. He did nothing wrong. Don’t like the system, which is the point of this site; then let’s change the system. But this attorney did nothing wrong in this case. He stood up for his client, the court appointed guardian, whom at this point wishes she never heard the name Chuck Nagle. Read the follow up if you’d like in the local paper. But either way understand that the attorney was not on a power trip. Not one bit. He was doing his job and doing it in a very respectful manner. If William new about it, he would agree whole heartedly. Sad as that is. He has been intimidated by his oldest son for to long.
This is not to get away from the cause. Keep up the fight. Thank You
And alas, no criminal charges filed? That may be a failure on all our parts. Stay tuned.
I read the follow-up column. Looks to me like another typical family fued over a parent.
ReplyDeleteThe follow-up was pretty clear that the article is intended "to be more than what he and the Nagle family have encountered dealing with the courts and each other." The article is about the guardian system being a secret system and that guardians should be required to do accountings at least twice a year if not quarterly. I agree with that.
But I do not agree with this lawyer who according to the follow-up said the son asked the guardian about 30 questions and when he did not get answers, he subpoenaed the guardian and apparently that is when the lawyer got involved with his back-off letter. A lawyer should be used to subpoenas and depositions. As a adult child, no sibling, guardian or lawyer could ever tell me that I do not have a right to have my concerns answered regarding my parent, period.
The lawyer/guardian seems to me to be on a total power trip.
Anon, a judge could stop you from ever seeing your parent again. And you would be powerless to stop it. You are right about a total power trip. That is exactly what the guardianship system is.
ReplyDeleteAnon to wiser, if you ever upset the guardian or attorney, you will be in the same boat as Chuck, isolated, used as an excuse and powerless, guaranteed.
We will be posting the follow up article on 4/17/09
ReplyDeleteWARNING:
ReplyDeleteI hope this guardianship case educates society, especially the residents of Wisconsin, before they find themselves in a lifechanging no-win situation, like the Nagle family, with very little hope of ever recovering their losses long after this case is a closed case, concluded.
I hope this is a clear WARNING, an wake up alarm to others to remember who, the innocent, will suffer most.
WARNING to family: do all you can to compromise, mediate to keep your loved ones out of an "unknown" system with no oversight that will certainly take 100% control of your loved one's lives and all that they own and cherish.
"The guardian system in Wisconsin is one where little information reaches the public, and sometimes even family members. "In Wisconsin, guardianship cases are considered to be closed. Even family cannot get information." It’s a system that he contends is broken."
ReplyDeleteWhy is this serious lifechanging process being kept in the dark, secret from the citizens of Wisconsin?
Why are the case files sealed / closed to family members and to those individuals who might want to audit and review case files?
Why was William Nagle's POA's disregarded, dismissed and not recognized by the court?
This system clearly has been and is working against the families and the best interest of the ward - how can this be?
I guarantee you the special interest groups and lobbyists for the probate gang who are getting rich from guardianships had to run around the state of Wisconsin with truckloads filled with campaign cash to wine and dine and buy and bribe the legislators to write these barbaric self-serving laws that clearly strip civil rights that go against the citizens of Wisconsin and what it means to be an American.
ReplyDeleteShameful.