The San Jose Mercury News' investigative articles and video "Loss of Trust" raised issues relative to fees of court-appointed personal and estate managers, or licensed professional fiduciaries. Readers should have additional facts to provide a thorough and balanced perspective regarding their compensation.Courts determine the amount of compensation based on the California Rules of Court established by the Judicial Council -- specifically, Rule 7.756, "Compensation of Conservators and Guardians." Those rules say the court may consider various factors in determining just and reasonable compensation, including the size and nature of the estate; the necessity of the services performed; amount of time spent; and whether services were routine or required more than ordinary skill or judgment, or unusual expertise or experience. The customary level of compensation in the community also can be considered.
"No single factor listed ... should be the exclusive basis for the court's determination of just and reasonable compensation," the rule says. It does not authorize a court "to set an inflexible maximum or minimum compensation or a maximum approved hourly rate for compensation."
In the case of the fees that were the subject of the article and video, this rule was utilized. The fiduciary submitted to the court a bill for services consistent with the business model of his company. The court applied the rule and reduced the fees significantly to the level it deemed appropriate. There has been no court determination that there was any wrongdoing or violation of the law.
Experience demonstrates that costs and effort are highest in the first several months of a conservatorship or special needs trust, depending on the difficulty of a situation -- hoarding issues, financial abuse or mismanagement, mental issues, family dysfunction, etc. The worse the situation, the more the skill and effort needed to create a safe and stable environment in which a conservatorship/special needs trust can be maintained.
Full Article and Source:
Norine Boehmer: Court-appointed estate managers do their best to help people
34 comments:
Do they Ms. Boehmer? If that's the case, then the Mercury News and Santa Cruz.com wouldn't be full of articles about the financial abuse of wards by their fiduciaries.
I am glad NASGA published your editorial so the world can see the other side spends a lot of time justifying itself.
Not convincing Ms. Boehmer.
Oh please give me a break on this I am doing more than the 'estate managers' via POA for 2 parents.
Fee for services: $00.00!!!
Can anyone beat this?
Let's be honest here this is big business excuse me HUGE is the word for 2012. Mega HUGE business in the USA and worldwide.
Protection Industry is a service industry unregulated, walls of protection bought and paid for over the decades.
And there is no tracking, no database we don't even know the total of number of adult ward cases do we?
But we know at any given time how many McDonald's were sold - don't we? Nothing against hamburgers or corporations here just a comparison.
Stopping this abuse is mandatory or we're next folks.
Thank you NASGA!
A quote form the author in the article. "There has been no court determination that there was any wrongdoing or violation of the law." Therein lies a part of the problem.
TYPICAL LIES
What Norine Boehmer is doing and has done is MIS-LEAD the public with excuses and rules "WHICH NONE OF THEM "HER" INCLUDED FOLLOW". Judges and lawyers in every city and state are out of control. Conservatorship rules are broken on a daily basis. I was recently in a court where I witnessed a lawyer get the judge to allow access to ALL the money of an estate. It's simple, tell the judge "the bank is having problems opening a (blocked account). Just suggesting this (without proof) the judge allowed them to obtain an expensive bond which allows a stranger access to all the assets. This was done in my case as well. None of the rules mean anything if they are not strictly abide by. We can have laws against MURDER but if someone murders someone and those laws are not unforced they mean nothing.
What is Norine's record of prosecuting judges and lawyers? I don't want to hear "we can't divulge the names or cases". Criminals are criminals even if wearing a suit, tie or black robe. Aviva K. Bobb is still committing crimes and destroying lives in Los Angeles after she ran away clamming early retirement after the death of Lee Peters and a child. Think about it AMERICA, a judge causes the death of a child and senior. NOTHING IS DONE. Above the law.
Who does Norine Boehmer work for? More lawyers? We need a citizens group with NOTHING to do with lawyers or police who oversee the entire process and can remove, prosecute lawyers, judges and court personal who break the law and do not uphold the law.
The problem is simple, WE GO TO COURT EXPECTING JUSTICE and we witness judges who ignore lawyers who break laws, abuse rules and take advantage of defenseless and helpless people. The lowest form of criminals who abuse children, disabled and seniors. People who MUST BE PROSECUTED like child molesters. Animal rights groups have better protection than seniors who go before a probate judge.
It's all about the CREATION OF LEGAL FEES, which as we know is "FOLLOW THE MONEY" and you'll find the criminals billing hundreds of thousands of dollars in made up legal bills. $250-$600 an hour for a lawyer to just stand around at court. Lawyers don't chase ambulances anymore, WHY they can hold granny or grampa hostage by ripping them from their homes. Then they have the nerve to claim "WE'RE ONLY HELPING THEM". Truth is when the money is gone, they are gone even faster. Not to forget they never help or rip anyone from anywhere UNLESS they have ample money for their HUGE, OUTRAGEOUS FEES.
Its a scam and Norine Boehmer is a front for legal crime.
Ms. Boehmer,
Your comments show a remarkable lack of awareness of the true situation. As an advocate, I encounter case after case of estate managers churning conservatees’ estates to enrich themselves and their cronies. Estates are bled by exorbitant charges for unneeded and unwanted services. Victims, and often their families, are rapidly impoverished.
The cruelest situation is use of the conservatees’ own assets to pay for isolation and abuse of the conservatee, while further draining the estate to fund harassment and intimidation of loved ones. I have watched this scenario play out across California, including here in Santa Clara County.
There may be an occasional caring and ethical estate manager. If so, I invite those few individuals to step forward and advocate for enhanced protection of vulnerable elders and increased oversight of their own profession. Perhaps a few caring estate managers will offer their services pro bono to atone for the sins of their fellows.
Everybody knows not all conservatorships are bad, Ms. Boehmer. But do you know how many are and nothing is done about it? I suggest you start with reading NASGA's Victims page for a small sampling.
While not all guardians are bad, TOO TOO many are.
In Cook County, guardians are using OBRA Special Needs Trusts to quickly deplete the estate. They place the ward into publicly funded for profit nursing homes, and then quickly deplete the estate with "necessary" fees.
What is amaziing is that an estate which could provide support in a beautiful private pay facility for 10 years is depleted in 2 - 3 years in guardianship fees---while all the true needs of the ward are being paid by taxpayers.
IL has recently changed their OBRA laws, and these trusts may no longer be used by private guardians. They may, however, still be used by the Public guardian--so more laws are needed.
While Ms Boehmer states that early years of guardianship are costly, what I saw in my loved ones experience is that keeping my loved one in an appropriate private pay facility would not only have benefitted her physically and psychologically, but her estate would have been preserved for three times as long as the guardians plan of OBRA, public aid, and guardians fees.
Guardiandhip is a scam in MANY cases in Cook County, IL, to the point of being criminal in nature.
Wrongdoing in IL should be reported to the appropriate authorities.
www.probateabusemanual.blogspot.com
Wonder if Ms. Boehmer would consider a $30 an hour fee for her services ? I bet not ! Just goes to show it's all about the money!
Sue,
You said "And there is no tracking, no database we don't even know the total of number of adult ward cases do we?" In addition to your comment "Not to mention a study to determine what they are doing to the wards and how that effects the quality of life and the life expentency." Studies that had been done many many years ago indicated that generally wards only live 3 years or less under the courts watch talk about quality!!! How are they improving ? It time to move these cases out of Probate. Probate courts are for the dead not the living.
There is no regulation of conservators and guardians. There are no requirements except for no felony record. Unfortunately, too many conservators and guardians regard their power as a license to steal.
Mary Waddell
eyond comprehension, how the "system" fleeces the elderly. There are no excuses for robbing an estate.with ourageous fees, which cannot be justifiedn even in today;s labor market.
I really think NASGA should publish a disclaimer with this article.
Here we go again with the same old professional fiduciary lies. Where is the data showing any truth of anything Norine says? Nowhere. If Norine thinks she has data, let her present it now.
I would like an honest investigation into whether or not her organization of more than 500, is nothing but a powerful well organized, well funded conspiracy with connections, funded by stolen senior citizen estates.
The same assumptions can be made about Family members with a lot more truth. Family members are on call 24/7 365 days a year, compensation is just delayed but often never asked for. Family members work for family members whether there the family members in need have money or not. The vast majority of family members are honest hardworking people who get little or no credit, and don't care if they get credit or not. Only family members know the specific needs of family members. The only single factor considered by family members is love, so they don't need a rule book.
I think your association is trying to save face. What you should do, Mrs. Boehmer, is stand up and admit that there are serious problems and that you'd like to work with the CA legislators -- and NASGA -- to fix them.
Nadine's group is not doing what the mob did in the area of "protection" schemes. The hard work was done by the mob in inventing it, and finding and employing tough methods of influencing and buying judges, police,legislatures, and the press. The mob wrote the book, these so-called people are just copiers. I am writing this anonymously for the same reason people were afraid of the mob.
She is just another member of the guardianship abuse cartel in another state. Professing the twisted deception of protection. There's just too much money in this business for anyone to want to make it right. So sad for all those that lose their rights, humanity, dignity, estates, and lives, and families that are destroyed. Too bad that guardianship is under probate court. Elders and disabled are doomed.
Nothing but a bunch of crooks.
It’s a sad commentary on the state of guardian abuse advocacy, when every supposed advocate responds negatively to someone who proposes “additional facts to provide a thorough and balanced perspective”. Norine Boehmer described the California probate court rules and procedures concerning compensation for fiduciaries. She explained how the courts and fiduciaries operate under ideal circumstances, I think. She presented standards. She did not claim that all courts and all fiduciaries achieve those standards at all times; she did not claim that fiduciary corruption does not exist. I find nothing objectionable about anything she said and understand that the same standards apply in the probate courts in my State and elsewhere. Some courts exceed standards; some barely meet them; some are blatantly renegade.
People have been studying fiduciary exploitation for decades. (Someone said/asked, “there is no tracking, no database [sic] we don't even know the total of number of adult ward cases do we?” False, false and yes, we do.) Without comprehensive understanding of a system, we cannot change it. Learning a few rules that underpin a few cases is not enough. Calling Norine Boehmer a ‘liar’, a ‘”front for legal crime,” in return for offering facts and experience, is pitiful. Suggesting that her objective presentation of them, displays a “lack of awareness of the true situation” is . . . Tonight I’m ashamed to be a NASGA member.
the extraordinary legel fees are no joke. my personal favorites are $900.00 to talk to the guardian on the phone for 1 hour, atty jay andrews of arlington hts. $135.00 spent on postage, atty casey of chicago. and the conversation between two atty casey and josh from the OPG. ms. casey asked josh if he received my social security check. yes the one i worked for.
i was seated directly back of them.
all given the ok by judge. it has got to be a joke because it can't be legal.
The article by Norine Boehmer is interesting. In my opinion the information in the article is coming from a very different perspective and certainly does not appear to be "thorough and balanced". To be fair and balanced Norine should have interviewed a few families to provide the perspective of what it is like to be victimized by these "highly empathetic and caring" fiduciaries. The more I read the blogs on NASGA the more I realize what a growing problem this abuse is. What makes this problem more insidious is that the abuse is at the hands of individuals who claim to be professionals and advocates in the field while the courts allow it.
FRIEND WROTE:
"People have been studying fiduciary exploitation for decades. (Someone said/asked, “there is no tracking, no database [sic] we don't even know the total of number of adult ward cases do we?” False, false and yes, we do.)"
FALSE? Really? Oh my gosh, I must have missed this information, truly I apologize for the error thinking there wasn't a database or a total number of adult wards of the states.
REQUEST to FRIEND:
1) Please provide the links to the state and/or federal databases of adult guardianship and conservatorship cases here at the NASGA blog.
Also, FRIEND please include STATE OF WISCONSIN guardianship database all of their guardianship case files are closed/sealed.
2) Please provide the link and/or the number of guardianship/conservatorship cases here at the NASGA Blog:
______________________________
Thank you for your assistance.
To Friend,
Not every supposed advocate responded negatively, but what if they did? Don't they have a right to disagree?
You're exactly right that the problems have been studied for years. The problem with that is those who have been doing the studying are the guardianship/conservatorship practitioners. The voice of advocates has not been heard until NASGA. So, that means years and years of studies have really been incomplete.
We've been through guardianship hell. We know what the problems are and one of the biggest problems is that family are shut out and that wards have their "say" taken away from them.
Very well said!!
Norine Boehmer has given the 4 beneficiaries of our fathers estate..no accounting for over 10 months, hired her attorneys, which we pay for to unlawful detainer us without cause from our own property. Has blatantly displayed partiality, low balled us into an incredibly low offer from an out of area broker she has dealt with for 8 years.
Hired attorneys, rude communication if any.
Non disclosure of buyers,sales agreement,inspection, incredibly poor marketing. Hung up on me an agent and has lied to agent about probate house proceeding.
Knew we were broke,won't give accounting of fees and has basically been totally unethical partial secretive and reneged on promised money saying oops no fees left...
She has all.power and does not act in any interest but her own, her attorneys (equally rude)...in 10 months no accounting of any transactions against our property and calls herself "owner".
It's a scam and should be amended by State Legislature..
She's a monster...
I'm looking forward to reporting her to her professional Bureau for unethical behavior, non disclosure and moral hazard...Beware..anybody wanting to start a class action suit..please respond and we will find a way to do this anonymously..I'm a wreak disgusted and apalled...She must be stopped.
Please join forces with us others.
I'm do.pissed off..no duty of care, partiality. Collusion. Puttingy.brother.and myself...Chris caretakers for 5 years.24/7..
UD'do 8.days be Christmas. .no.money
On foodstamps.charging uslawyers fees to oust is out of our own undersold propetty.
No.info.period for 9.months..
Rude. Sly. Non disclose by certaified Mail.text you name it..
On the streets..partialiy..Duty of care
.omg unethical and in violations..
Anybody want to start a class action.
lisastarlight16@gmail.com
Hurry..I will do all.legal.work.
Please it's a scam.
.
You got it., I just had the worst experience with Noreen Bomer who I thought my brother was a little bit out of order as trustee but she is pure evil treated like garbage and is rude and doesn't return phone calls it is now asking is December 17th eight days before Christmas with no money no roof over our head and doesn't give a damn I want to who who who wants to join me in a class-action suit I'm ready..
Email me; lisastarlight16@gmail.com
You got it... been asking for documentation certified to accept your phone calls and she just wanted chord and under sold our property and called it a shack and it's in a very expensive area we didn't stand a chance they're all in it together and I'd like to take it to send it anybody interested contact me on my email for a class suit on lisastarlight16@gmail.com. .
Asap.
She just under sold our house in court a family loving Legacy hand built by my father with a broker out of town to a Korean couple at about a $600,000 discount we have no say in the property no information upon request certified or others and she is completely rude and it's partial to my sister who is one of the beneficiary is I'd like to take a classhower action suit at lisastarlight16@gmail.com. .
She has issued unlawful detainers in their own home for about 9 months without reason and we are being evicted December 17th with no money and nowhere to go and no roof and there's nothing in the trust what a monster.
She's good on a good ethical clothes store non-disclosure rude and it's throwing my brother out of our family home we had for 35 years on the 17th of December without money and anywhere to go he's a real bitch let's do a class action suit contact me on this email lisastarlight16@gmail.com. .
Breach of trust fiduciary duties you name it she's broken it let's band together and do something about it even if we have to take it the state senate
Let's do it..
Follow pew it's comments..
Total non-disclosure including fees parameters sending a straw trust documents partiality you name it she's broken it contact me on 747-229-8082
Please we can report her under the blanket of the professional Bureau of fidiciuaries.
Contact me on 747 229 8082.
I've got so much evidence on here it's ridiculous let's do a class action suit ASAP
Do you know my opinion?
They Monitor and erase all bad press she's throwing this out of our family home my brother and I with an unlawful detainer and Sheriff's coming on December 17th with no money and no Ruth and I met her in court she never returns my phone calls she's partial to one sister please contact me regarding a class action suit on 747-229-8082 thank you
From my experience the only people that they serve are themselves. A cabal of Thieves. Brutal, callous, sociopaths are all accurate assessments of these "Guardians".
Please contact me..
I'm in shock regarding this institution.
lisastarlight16@gmail.com.
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